expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby smandula » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:45 am

Hi Stan,

I would like to own the product outright. I may choose to upgrade, but that would be my decision.
Paying for upgrade or plugin would be fine. In the end I own something I paid for.
Time share is not my style.
smandula
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby Viking » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:58 pm

Hi Stan,

I personally would prefer a cheaper yearly subscription fee for existing users like 19.95 US dollar. Expert Lotto 5 should also be updated on a regular basis, every month or two with new features and all updates should be free in the subscription period. If version 6 of Expert Lotto comes out on the market in the subscription period the update should still be free. When the subscription period ends the user should not have any access to the program anymore.

I can say you so much that if I have to pay 200 US dollar to get a permanent Expert Lotto 5 license I will not buy it. Because I think the program is not that good and not so much better than Expert Lotto 4 when it comes to the most important, winning the Jackpot.

Regards,
Viking
User avatar
Viking
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby MartinMan » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:41 pm

Hello Stan,
I would not buy on a yearly basis. I do not like that type of licensing scheme at all.
I would buy on a one time license, but not at an inflated price compared to the yearly scheme.
That does not make sense to me. What difference does it make if you get all the money up front, or spread it out over several years? Except for the more steady income.
All updates to the program, for that version, should be paid for in the price. I don't believe that it costs you more to send out updates to one time buyers than it costs to send to yearly license holders.
Why not make a one time full license price that reflects the life of the software?
As pointed out, 200 dollars is 10 years of the yearly price being considered and is Way to high.
If you think that the life of the software is 3 years, then the price of a full license should be 60 dollars.
If you think that the life of the software is 5 years, then the price of a full license should be 100 dollars.
But that is pretty high for lotto software, that we have already bought once. You seem to be thinking about asking as much for an update as we have paid for the full version already.
Also to be considered, is Version 5 so much better that is should cost as much, or more, for an upgrade than the original software cost? That is something that we all have to consider individually.

I did not reply to your other post asking about the 5 ways that are being considered because I would not consider any of them at this time.

Regards,
Martin
MartinMan
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:38 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby Savage_Rottweiler » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:27 am

Hi Stan,
I've just been looking at the new site for EL5, I noticed you are charging $9.95 for a Months Trial, I'm only giving my feedback on this, but I'm sure others have a different opinion, in the past if there have been any form of Software Application that have asked me to pay for a Full Working Trial, and there have been very few, I never bothered even downloading them or trying them out. In my view trials should be risk free for the user to encourage them to try it, there shouldn't be any problem with trials as you can set the 1 month full feature then it goes back the the very limited and possibly no use free version.
User avatar
Savage_Rottweiler
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby stan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:04 pm

let me make clear a couple of things:

- the suggested prices i posted in this forum are by no means final. they are just examples showing the different pricing models we're considering at the moment.

- we're not charging for upgrade from expert lotto 4.x because we want to get extra money from existing customers. by upgrading to expert lotto 5 you're buying into a new software platform that's far more extensible than version 4.x. the initial release of expert lotto 4.x was in summer 2004 and in summer 2008 i started working on the new version 5. i expect that expert lotto 5 will last much longer than the four years of version 4.x had. unless there's a major revolution in java APIs or a major shift in the paradigm how computer are used (for example think of ipads or hand-held computers in general) expert lotto will be still based on this platform. there might be some major user interface redesign in e.g. 4 to 5 years which might be marketed as 'version 6', it will still use most of the existing code.

- it's true that expert lotto 5 is not that different from version 4.x. apart from (hopefully) better user interface and performance improvements there aren't really that many advantages over version 4.x. (actually the performance speed up *is* a big step forward as you can better experiment with new strategies without waiting half an hour for a filter to finish. bobes will share some new ideas with you soon.) most of you think that these changes do not justify the upgrade price - whatever the price will be in the end. but you should realize that expert lotto 5.0 that will be released in january is just the beginning. there are already 70 feature requests reported here: http://expertlotto.com/issues - ranging from minor tweaks to complex and advanced functions. we have also our own ideas for new expert lotto features. you should expect frequent releases of new versions with new and interesting features

- that's also why we think (or thought at least:) it is fair to have subscription-like licensing. you will be getting new functions and new features for your money. this isn't like purchasing windows xp and then upgrading to windows vista/7 five years later...


anyway, many thanks for your feedback. we'll be back with final prices soon:)
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6338
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby Bobijohn » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:10 pm

Note: Stan, When I came to actually post this post written in Word I noticed you had just made the above post. Anyway, I thought I would post it anyway.

Hi Stan

Thank you for asking for feedback. I have based my comments and preferred pricing model on what I perceive as an actual scenario for clarity.


1). In January 2011 I pay XX ($19.95 US - a fair price IMHO) to upgrade from version 4 to version 5. This would include any bug fixes and upgrades for the year 2011. Since this is still a relatively new program and, as more people use version 5, I suspect there will be more bug fixes than upgrades the first year (2011) anyway. More importantly the user will have access to the most current version at all times. Most requests for upgrades are based on a user's immediate needs, therefore waiting to the end of the year for the upgrade is not an optimum condition. Also, consider what happens if the local lottery
changes during the year, i.e.: changes the preferred game or adds/subtracts a game or for that matter the data format.


2). At the end of 2011 (say Dec) the user has the option of upgrading the software for to 2012 so that it will remain current throughout the year 2012. Under no circumstances should the existing license (the 2011 license) expire and render the program unusable. I have strong feelings about this and it applies to any analysis type program where a user (such as myself) has spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours over the past several years accumulating statistics and developing strategies which could all be rendered useless if something were to happen to you (God forbid) or, you just decide to no longer issue new licences (e.g.: possible lawsuit) or, maintain the program for whatever reason.

3). In summary. The above proposed model is pretty simple. I think it would be easy for you to administer. It would provide you with an annual revenue stream. We, the user, would own the program and have the option of keeping our program current for one year at a time. We, the user, know where we stand because we own the program and it does not expire.

4) New users buy the program for YY (say $79.95 US as you suggest - a fair price IMHO) which would include the all upgrades for the first year (as you suggest) and then have the option of future upgrades for $19.95 (as you suggest) and as described above. However the user should own the program (no outright expiration) and have a choice to keep it current by paying the upgrade fee as described above. The user knows where he stands. As proposed here I believe this would be easy for you to administer and still provide you with a revenue stream.

On a lighter note you may also consider the following. In the old forum members could include certain biographical data, e.g.: date of birth. I remember perusing that information and noting that several of your more devout members (those most active as contributors in the forum) were in their later years (e.g.: retired. Being seventy I fall into this "esteemed" group LOL!!). Perhaps that explains why we had the time to be so active. This is consistent with Polls in other forums which seem to support the notion that the average lotto player has at least reached middle age. This is also an experienced group (with many on fixed incomes- just look at the small sampling of comments in this thread) who will help keep your forum interesting and active. As a young entrepreneur it is easy to overlook the contributions made by the older generation - something to consider in your pricing model.

Stan -->These are just my thoughts - take them for just that. Since joining your forum in Feb 2007 I have watched the development of ExpertLotto 4 and 5 with true amazement with respect to your programming expertise and dedication. ExpertLotto 5 is an excellent program and you should be very proud of your achievement.

I wish you the very best of future good fortune - whichever pricing model you finally choose.

Regards

Bobijohn

P.S.

Website

Just minor comments really.

1). “About” narrative. English could be improved consistent with the good English used elsewhere. A person probably only reads this when they are considering buying the program. Improve this section and maybe even expand it to make a good impression.

2). In the trial version, paying $9.95 for 30 days to unlock all the features is probably OK. However, having only 10 days to make a purchase descion to salvage the $9.95 does not do the program extra features justice. This is more likely to annoy a prospective buyer. This is a powerful and complicated program to use. And getting a feel for some of those special features will take a good bit of time. Suggest this limitation be removed. If bought within 30 days apply the $9.95 as a credit.

Bobijohn

P.S.
Bobijohn
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby Savage_Rottweiler » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:02 pm

Bobijohn wrote:2). In the trial version, paying $9.95 for 30 days to unlock all the features is probably OK. However, having only 10 days to make a purchase descion to salvage the $9.95 does not do the program extra features justice. This is more likely to annoy a prospective buyer. This is a powerful and complicated program to use. And getting a feel for some of those special features will take a good bit of time. Suggest this limitation be removed. If bought within 30 days apply the $9.95 as a credit.

Bobijohn

P.S.


The way I read it you have 10 days after your License expired to make the Purchase, as I said in another post I would never look at buying anything that asked for a payment to try it, its performance and quality should be the selling point, in other words I should after using it go Wow! I want this then I'll make the purchase.
User avatar
Savage_Rottweiler
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby Savage_Rottweiler » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:17 pm

stan wrote:let me make clear a couple of things:

- we're not charging for upgrade from expert lotto 4.x because we want to get extra money from existing customers. by upgrading to expert lotto 5 you're buying into a new software platform that's far more extensible than version 4.x. the initial release of expert lotto 4.x was in summer 2004 and in summer 2008 i started working on the new version 5. i expect that expert lotto 5 will last much longer than the four years of version 4.x had. unless there's a major revolution in java APIs or a major shift in the paradigm how computer are used (for example think of ipads or hand-held computers in general) expert lotto will be still based on this platform. there might be some major user interface redesign in e.g. 4 to 5 years which might be marketed as 'version 6', it will still use most of the existing code.


I don't think no one here is arguing that we shouldn't have to pay you for an upgrade to Version 5 Stan because you want to get extra money from us as it is a Major upgrade, you have done a lot of work coding EL5, personally my only problem is if you go with the subscription license, its nothing to do with paying you money, I just will never buy a product this way. Say for some reason in the near future you decide you don't have time with family and other work commitments to keep developing EL5, at least if I get a permanent license I could keep using EL5 with out fear that one day it would be unusable.
User avatar
Savage_Rottweiler
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby stan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:27 pm

Savage_Rottweiler wrote:
stan wrote:let me make clear a couple of things:

- we're not charging for upgrade from expert lotto 4.x because we want to get extra money from existing customers. by upgrading to expert lotto 5 you're buying into a new software platform that's far more extensible than version 4.x. the initial release of expert lotto 4.x was in summer 2004 and in summer 2008 i started working on the new version 5. i expect that expert lotto 5 will last much longer than the four years of version 4.x had. unless there's a major revolution in java APIs or a major shift in the paradigm how computer are used (for example think of ipads or hand-held computers in general) expert lotto will be still based on this platform. there might be some major user interface redesign in e.g. 4 to 5 years which might be marketed as 'version 6', it will still use most of the existing code.


I don't think no one here is arguing that we shouldn't have to pay you for an upgrade to Version 5 Stan because you want to get extra money from us as it is a Major upgrade, you have done a lot of work coding EL5, personally my only problem is if you go with the subscription license, its nothing to do with paying you money, I just will never buy a product this way. Say for some reason in the near future you decide you don't have time with family and other work commitments to keep developing EL5, at least if I get a permanent license I could keep using EL5 with out fear that one day it would be unusable.

understood
would the pricing model bobijohn suggested work for you?
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6338
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby stan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:39 pm

Savage_Rottweiler wrote:
Bobijohn wrote:2). In the trial version, paying $9.95 for 30 days to unlock all the features is probably OK. However, having only 10 days to make a purchase descion to salvage the $9.95 does not do the program extra features justice. This is more likely to annoy a prospective buyer. This is a powerful and complicated program to use. And getting a feel for some of those special features will take a good bit of time. Suggest this limitation be removed. If bought within 30 days apply the $9.95 as a credit.

Bobijohn

P.S.


The way I read it you have 10 days after your License expired to make the Purchase, as I said in another post I would never look at buying anything that asked for a payment to try it, its performance and quality should be the selling point, in other words I should after using it go Wow! I want this then I'll make the purchase.

i wouldn't mind handing out trial licenses for free. but we have no way of knowing whether 'john doe with email address john123@gmail.com' isn't the same person as 'john smith with email address john124@gmail.com' who got a free trial license just last month.
the credit card charge will ensure no one is running expert lotto on trial licenses only.
the discount for full app registration from a trial was meant as an incentive to interested users to give expert lotto a shot. if they decide to continue with the application, their initial investment won't be wasted then.

btw, i really appreciate the professional manner of your feedback and we're proud that expert lotto has such a great community of lottery players!
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6338
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby Bobijohn » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:05 am

The way I read it you have 10 days after your License expired to make the Purchase


You are correct. Thank you for pointing that out.

i wouldn't mind handing out trial licenses for free. but we have no way of knowing whether 'john doe with email address john123@gmail.com' isn't the same person as 'john smith with email address john124@gmail.com' who got a free trial license just last month.
the credit card charge will ensure no one is running expert lotto on trial licenses only.
the discount for full app registration from a trial was meant as an incentive to interested users to give expert lotto a shot. if they decide to continue with the application, their initial investment won't be wasted then.


That is a good point. With that said I understand your concern. Without your explanation the $9.95 came over to me similar to the annoying "postage and handling fee" so prevalent on all things Internet. I also see where "Savage_Rottweiler" is coming from with the WOW factor. Your call - I am now essentially neutral on this one.

Bobijohn
Bobijohn
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby Savage_Rottweiler » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:42 am

As long as its Modeled on a non expiring license I'm happy, but what makes me happy possibly won't suit others, you have really got to make a decision that your happy with also.

Another though on your trial version, couldn't you make all downloaded versions of EL5 work on Installation for 1 month, all you would need to do is write some kind of value to some hidden file some place on the System be it Mac, Windows or Linux with information on when it was installed making the only way to Unlock from there using a full license, this would stop them from Installing it again, as it also would be aware that the version has already run its trial period on reading this file.

Another way would be to Save a DNA Signature in the hidden file. including say Mac Address, Motherboard, even Video Card, there are plenty of area's to grab info, this file then would get sent to an Activation Server, if a trial has been run before then Activation is rejected.
User avatar
Savage_Rottweiler
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby lottoboy » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:24 pm

Hi, Stan,

Long time no see, How are you doing today?

I think it’s so early to discuss EL 5 pricing now.
The reasons are as below:

1) Your EL 5 has not yet finished until now for example, Joe’s filters have not yet worked anymore, also no any Strategies for EL5, a lot of features which members asked for before have not yet finished too, ……..

2) In fact, your EL5 doesn’t have any improvements substantially in precision of prediction comparing to EL4 until now.(Please don‘t tell us that : “My EL5 has a beautiful color and page design,” or “Some filters have a faster speed in progress”… etc)

3) Still don’t have any successful case to confirm that :”EL program is the best /valuable software in the world/net. ” until now.

The most important things for EL Team now should be:

1) Focus on improving EL5 especially in precision of prediction further;

2) Make some well-proven strategies by using EL5;

3) Show us one or more successful cases really by using your strategies.

It would be significant to discuss the PRICING about your production in the future after finishing the above job first.

Don’t be impatient for price advance please, OK?

Best regards,
lottoboy
lottoboy
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:37 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby jimbo » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:08 am

Stan

i say it sounds like a winner.
$19.95=29.95=anything under 50 i can live with per yr.

have my other software that i use along with yours. which i dont see any upgrades per yr at all. but about every 2=3 it is. and to upgrade its about $100.00. it does average out to the same. but, i can cough up the $100 most of the time all at once.

your price plan i can find the 20 for a yrs worth of hope.
have fun and keep it fun,

jim
jimbo
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:57 pm

Re: expert lotto 5 pricing (and new web design)

Postby Maryland » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:35 am

Stan

I'm another one who is not a great fan of yearly dues. Upgrade to version 5 for 29.95 sounds ok for registered Pro users as a one time fee and then if there is a major upgrade and I like it then another 29.95 is acceptable. I figure this way we own something we paid for and you have a incentive to make it even better for the extra cash. By the way version 5 is a nice piece of work!
Maryland
 
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:18 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Development versions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron