Using number groups filter - need help

Using number groups filter - need help

Postby Gatsby » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:39 pm

Please can someone give examples of how to use number groups in stats filter?

Particularly when using
Numbers group - default - distribution
Winning numbers - select latest (but can be any of these: all, latest, latest range, all except, oldest, date range)
Occurrence vs Latest = 1
and Apllies to x to y in each ticket.


I´m going insane with this, starting to pull my hair off....

My strategie is focused on rejecting tickets that share the same pattern with the last ticket.

The simpliest thing i want is if last draw as this pattern 1-0-1-2-1 then i want to filter from package all combinations with that pattern.


What´s the differece between latest=1 and latest range (draws) 1 to 1?

When apllying back test are the combinations compared to the last one? to each other? What is being compared and filtered?

What does it mean to x to y in each ticket (i understand from x to y, but not to x to y). Is the filter comparing the pattern from different combinations looking at each position or simply the number of times some number appears in that patterns?

Maybe this is all pretty obvious and i´m insisting on something the filter isnt prepared to do and so making me failing to see ... but not understanding exactly what the filter is doing is making me mad.

Please need help. You tryit and tell me if filter comports as expected?

Use default filter in complex filter window, simultaneuasly open an window to show ticket properties (Package - show as - properties) and another to show winning numbers properties, then to filter using some basic criteria with number groups and watch at colunm default (distribution) in winning number properties and at ticket properties as you use preview from complex filter. (first load 100 tickets to package and dont forget to insert what results (reject/accept) back to package, then watch as the default distribution propreties colunm change and compare whats filtered with the actual winning numbers properties for that distribution).
Gatsby
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby stan » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:42 pm

Gatsby wrote:What´s the differece between latest=1 and latest range (draws) 1 to 1?

there's no difference in this case

When apllying back test are the combinations compared to the last one? to each other? What is being compared and filtered?

if you select '1 latest draw' in statistical filter window then the filter will first check the number groups distribution of the previous draw and then accept/reject the draw being filtered if the entered condition matches the pattern from previous draw.

e.g. when back-testing draw #10, then the filter must calculate number group stats for draw #9 first. when back-testing draw #9 then it first calculates number group stats for draw #8 etc.

What does it mean to x to y in each ticket (i understand from x to y, but not to x to y). Is the filter comparing the pattern from different combinations looking at each position or simply the number of times some number appears in that patterns?

if there are 5 number groups in the default settings then each ticket/draw can fall up to 5 different number groups. that means that an analyzed ticket can increment up to 5 rows in number groups distribution stats table.
if the stats for draw #10 are 1-1-1-0-1 and the stats for draw #9 are 1-0-1-1-1 then settings 'applies to 4 to 5 in each ticket' will accept draw #10, settings 'applies to 5 to 5 in each ticket; will reject draw #10

Maybe this is all pretty obvious and i´m insisting on something the filter isnt prepared to do and so making me failing to see ... but not understanding exactly what the filter is doing is making me mad.

Please need help. You tryit and tell me if filter comports as expected?

the confusion is probably because the summary stats for number groups distribution do not match the per-draw stats for number groups distribution.

for example ticket numbers 2-9-16-24-28-43 has number groups distribution in package properties window of 2-1-2-0-1
however calculating summary stats for the same ticket shows that four number groups were found and each of the groups has occurrence of 1. so the pattern from number groups distribution stats table is 1-1-1-0-1
so you can't compare results from statistical filter based on number groups distribution with the number groups distribution in winning numbers properties window.

it's probably ok to update the summary stats for number groups distribution to count multiple occurrence of each group in a single ticket/draw. but i'll think it through first to see if there some catch...
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6282
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby Gatsby » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:15 am

the confusion is probably because the summary stats for number groups distribution do not match the per-draw stats for number groups distribution.

for example ticket numbers 2-9-16-24-28-43 has number groups distribution in package properties window of 2-1-2-0-1
however calculating summary stats for the same ticket shows that four number groups were found and each of the groups has occurrence of 1. so the pattern from number groups distribution stats table is 1-1-1-0-1
so you can't compare results from statistical filter based on number groups distribution with the number groups distribution in winning numbers properties window.

it's probably ok to update the summary stats for number groups distribution to count multiple occurrence of each group in a single ticket/draw. but i'll think it through first to see if there some catch...

Code: Select all
Hi Stan,  You made some light on this, the question is if the filter filters what might be called "group pattern" or the "Distribution Pattern". From my point of view it has to be the "Dsitribution Pattern".
Example:
In a situation with 3 groups, the "group pattern" will be equal to any game as (001, 010, 100, 101 and 111)
This "group patterns can be derived to "Distribution Patterns" in a 5/50 lotto as:
001 - 0 0 5
010 - 0 5 0
011 - 041, 014, 032, 023
100 - 5 0 0
101 - 1 0 4, 4 0 1 , 0 1 4 , 2 0 3 , 3 0 2 
111 - 401, 410, 041, 014, 122,221,212,311,131,113,320,230,023,032      i hope i didn´t forget any

So, as you can see, using "group pattern" it is very restrictive, because those 3 group combinations tend to be repetitive, even using 4 groups. What as to be used is the "Distribution Pattern"
.

Another thing that seems to be wrong to me is the settings to which it applies:

if there are 5 number groups in the default settings then each ticket/draw can fall up to 5 different number groups. that means that an analyzed ticket can increment up to 5 rows in number groups distribution stats table.
if the stats for draw #10 are 1-1-1-0-1 and the stats for draw #9 are 1-0-1-1-1 then settings 'applies to 4 to 5 in each ticket' will accept draw #10, settings 'applies to 5 to 5 in each ticket; will reject draw #10


this is not clear to me, because it will, but not because it relates with draw#9, it just does because the setting forces it to be in the form of 1-1-1-1-1 !!!


Please, check the logic of the filter again, because there are more "distribution patterns" than "group patterns", and this implies that 2 or more draws with the same "group pattern" can have different "Distribution Patterns" and is at this ones we are aiming at.

the confusion is probably because the summary stats for number groups distribution do not match the per-draw stats for number groups distribution.


Thanks to this excelent insight, all became more compreensible now. But i still don´t know if EL5 looks at the "Group Pattern" or "Distribution Pattern" when filters. I send a file with the results of a filtration that i still can´t understand.

I think Number groups is a excelent filter but some adjustaments need to be done, even considering a future implementation of Number groups for positions as i sugested before.

Best regards,

Filipe.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Gatsby
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby stan » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:07 pm

Gatsby wrote:Thanks to this excelent insight, all became more compreensible now. But i still don´t know if EL5 looks at the "Group Pattern" or "Distribution Pattern" when filters. I send a file with the results of a filtration that i still can´t understand.

to reproduce the back-test results of the statistical filter you'd have to do the following:
- hide draw 31/dez/2010
- calculate summary stats for number groups distribution
- find which pattern(s) has the value of 'latest' of 5 in the table
- compare the number groups distribution of draw 31/dez/2010 the with patterns from the stats table above

- hide draw 24/dez/2010 and newer draws
- calculate summary stats for number groups distribution
- find which pattern(s) has the value of 'latest' of 5 in the table
- compare the number groups distribution of draw 24/dez/2010 the with patterns from the stats table above

- hide draw 17/dez/2010 and newer draws
- calculate summary stats for number groups distribution
- find which pattern(s) has the value of 'latest' of 5 in the table
- compare the number groups distribution of draw 17/dez/2010 the with patterns from the stats table above

etc
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6282
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby Gatsby » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:53 am

Hi Stan,

I quit. This is just too puzzling for me for now, i feel that there are some things mixed up in here and i couldn´t reproduce the instructions you gave me.

If i calculate stats with complex analyzer there is no patterns to see...
I can´t see how to hide a draw without using select all except last one draw
i can´t seem to find latest 5 in the table or what is the point on that..

I was expecting a different clarification but as you didn´t refer to any other subject on the post . ..

Can you just be so kind to tell me please what is the right Design to filter every week from my several groups the "distribution groups" equal to the "distribution group" of the last draw?

Thanks,

PS: I can see this as been followed by some viewrs, why doesn´t anyone comment on this, am i the only one facing difficulties? Please get forward because you might have something to bring this more clear.
Gatsby
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby stan » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:06 pm

Gatsby wrote:Hi Stan,

I quit. This is just too puzzling for me for now, i feel that there are some things mixed up in here and i couldn´t reproduce the instructions you gave me.

If i calculate stats with complex analyzer there is no patterns to see...

if you calculate the summary stats for a single ticket then you'll see which table rows have occurrence of 1 - that's the pattern.

I can´t see how to hide a draw without using select all except last one draw

http://expertlotto.com/staging/en/help/ ... _date.html

i can´t seem to find latest 5 in the table or what is the point on that..

in the screenshots you posted the stats filter settings were 'latest = 5'.

I was expecting a different clarification but as you didn´t refer to any other subject on the post . ..

Can you just be so kind to tell me please what is the right Design to filter every week from my several groups the "distribution groups" equal to the "distribution group" of the last draw?

there isn't any unless i change the summary stats for number groups distribution to count each found group more than once to make it analogous to number groups distribution in winning numbers properties and package properties windows.
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6282
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby Gatsby » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:12 pm

Hi Stan, thanks for the reply.

Can you please do that? As i imagined that would be the only way I took first step and had already make a request for it in mantis. It´s just because it´s much more usefull, as everybody who works with groups will find, because there are less coincidences of patterns among distribution of numbers between groups than with the occurrence of numbers in each group. In fact is my believe that "changing summary stats for number groups distribution to count each found group more than once" will make the other distribution redundant, unless i´m not seeing this correctly, but i think i´m not.

If there isn´t major problems with the implementation of this, please do it Stan.

Thanks a lot.

Best regards,

Gats.
Gatsby
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby stan » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:35 pm

yes, it'll be fixed before the final release of version 5
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6282
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby Gatsby » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:40 am

Much appreciated Stan,

Best Regards,
Gatsby
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby Gatsby » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:21 pm

Hi Stan,

Can you please confirm if this was fixed ?

Regards,
Gatsby
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby stan » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:09 pm

Gatsby wrote:Can you please confirm if this was fixed ?

yes, it is

but i'm afraid there's no way to build an automated filter to accept/reject tickets that have the same number groups distribution as the latest draw. the statistical filter looks at individual rows in the summary table. there's no condition or combination of conditions to filter patterns where one or more number groups are empty, e.g. 2-1-1-0

what you need is a new summary statistical table that would list all possible number groups combinations/patterns starting with 4-0-0-0, 3-1-0-0 etc to 0-0-1-4 and 0-0-0-4 (when having 4 number groups) - in the same way 'segment combinations' stat table works. then you could use that table in statistical filter and easily find tickets with the same number groups pattern as the latest draw.
feel free to enter a new feature request for it but until the new stats is implemented you'll need to filter tickets manually.
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6282
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby Gatsby » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:49 am

OK Stan, i will

When you have 2 groups A and B and generally you have numbers distributed like 2-3, 3-2,1-4 or 4-1 (and much less frequently 0-5 or 5-0) you allways have 1-1 considering they occur in both groups. This doesn´t work for filtering.

When you have 3 groups you can have the more frequent distributions 1-2-2, 2-2-1, 1-2-2, 2-1-2, which are all identical to 1-1-1, and this isn´t much useful to filter...

The same happens when you create 4 groups. I suppose that only when you augment the number of groups does the filter starts to work, because in that situation you expect that the numbers get more distributed around groups and therefore there will be more coincidences between them due to the fact that generally all groups will have 1 or 0 drawn numbers in them...

I will post a request for a "new summary statistical table" that would list all possible number groups combinations/patterns as you sugested, just hope you could do this implemetation soon, because without it my around 20 created groups (most of them contituted by 3 and 4 groups) is useless and almost impossible to filter this using settings for "group filter".

BTW, summary stats can be used to help to choose the best definitions for "number groups filter". Maybe you could consider keeping summary stats as it is, but change the stats filter to consider efectively the distribution by groups. Or, as these distributions are aiming at different patterns make a way to present them both.
Well, i guess you will find a way and have good and easy identifiable names for them.

Regards,

F.

PS: ´the ideia about number groups for positions that i posted in mantis shares the same principle as in these ones...
Gatsby
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby stan » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:19 pm

Gatsby wrote:
I will post a request for a "new summary statistical table" that would list all possible number groups combinations/patterns as you sugested, just hope you could do this implemetation soon, because without it my around 20 created groups (most of them contituted by 3 and 4 groups) is useless and almost impossible to filter this using settings for "group filter".

why wouldn't the regular number groups filter work for you? you just need to enter the required pattern into filter's settings instead of relying on statistical filter to find the latest pattern for you automatically.

BTW, summary stats can be used to help to choose the best definitions for "number groups filter". Maybe you could consider keeping summary stats as it is,

yes
but change the stats filter to consider efectively the distribution by groups.

no, that's technically impossible. it would break the statistical filter for other statistical tables.
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6282
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby Gatsby » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:09 pm

Hi Stan,

I didn´t mean it didn´t work, but as the number of groups increases it´s pretty tiring inserting new setting every week, besides that it becames subject to mistakes.

I´m puzlled by your last remark. So, what will i be asking effectively in mantis, if you can´t implement sats filter as i proposed? Will you implement this as a different filter based in distribution groups stats based on

a new summary statistical table that would list all possible number groups combinations/patterns starting with 4-0-0-0, 3-1-0-0 etc to 0-0-1-4 and 0-0-0-4 (when having 4 number groups) - in the same way 'segment combinations' stat table works. then you could use that table in statistical filter and easily find tickets with the same number groups pattern as the latest draw.
feel free to enter a new feature request for it but until the new stats is implemented you'll need to filter tickets manually.


Last but not least is it possible to put an option on the number groups filter to select the pattern as in last draw? this would save us from changing it every week. It isn´t as good as stats filter where we can use latest, occurrence, etc, but i guess it would work?

Regards,
Gatsby
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Using number groups filter - need help

Postby stan » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:35 pm

Gatsby wrote:I´m puzlled by your last remark. So, what will i be asking effectively in mantis, if you can´t implement sats filter as i proposed? Will you implement this as a different filter based in distribution groups stats based on

sorry, i didn't make myself clear in the last post - please add a feature request for 'summary statistics of number groups patterns'. whenever i add a new summary stats table, the statistical filter picks it up automatically and offers the new table in its settings.

Last but not least is it possible to put an option on the number groups filter to select the pattern as in last draw? this would save us from changing it every week. It isn´t as good as stats filter where we can use latest, occurrence, etc, but i guess it would work?

well, it is possible but i think it's better to have either 'number groups patterns' available in the statistical filter or have a new filter listing all possible number group patterns where you'd choose the pattern(s) you're interested in.
or both
Expert Lotto Team
User avatar
stan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6282
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Next

Return to Development versions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron